Peterloo customisers

One of the great things about the internet is, it’s like an extended jamming session. People pick up ideas and run with them doing their own thing. Below is a selection of custom avatars that I’ve come across on my CiF travels – mouseover the images for the creator’s name.

Feel inspired? Download the photoshop templates for easy customisation. Just want a ready made? Originals, all new versions and the photoshop templates here:

http://c1nf.wordpress.com/2011/10/19/peterloo-avatars-update/

Wondering what this is all about?

The Peterloo avatar is being used on the comments section of the Guardian newspaper by posters .

Why Peterloo?

The Peterloo massacre was an attempt to kill, literally, a pro democracy march. The fact cavalry charges and unsheathed sabres were used against women and children provoked such horror that the Guardian newspaper was born to give a voice to the voiceless.

The editorial policy of late has been puzzling and raises questions on the amount of trust that can be placed in the Guardian’s journalistic integrity remaining intact – how can it be critical of right-wing policies yet supportive of the Lib-Dems.

The other issue is the appearance of supporting the free flowing spirit of web 2.0, while falling down on the practicalities.

Which, in all fairness the Guardian has listened to and acted upon:

PhilipOltermann 14 October 2011 3:05PM

Thanks for your response. Your point about talking about mutualisation being one thing, and actually engaging with readers’ comments being another: completely taken. And if you think it can sometimes look hypocritical from a readers’ perspective, again, I think that’s a fair point.

All I would like you to appreciate is that making the news gathering more open to readers is a process that will take some time. It means changing the habits of a lot of people. I know a lot of journalists who worry that they don’t have time to properly check their facts and follow minor leads because they have to now monitor Twitter, Facebook and comment threads. That’s not to say they won’t get the balance right eventually. But the point is: you can’t just change a switch from one day to the next. And while I do believe that some areas of journalism are very suited to ‘open’ journalism (e.g. comment, Datablog, liveblog of the riots coverage), others are less so (e.g. investigative, ‘behind the scenes’ stuff).

The rolling comment blog was an experiment: some bits worked (we had a really good discussion in the Labour conference thread about what sort of poll lead Labour would need now in order to win the election), but other bits really didn’t. More than happy to take your criticism on board there.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/comment-permalink/12835129

Peterloo is happening because people care enough about the Guardian, to want to try to make it better.

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63 Comments on “Peterloo customisers”

  1. tx says:

    Grand, get wildey’s a peach imho. and ally f, smokin gardener..

  2. tx says:

    Gegen…

  3. Thanks for pointing them out, I’m just grabbing the ones I see as they flash past in the threads, I’ll go track them down.

  4. lightacandle says:

    Digby

    This is one of my favourites – its belongs to Mr Fusticle……

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/comment-permalink/12764223

  5. tx says:

    wildey
    13 October 2011 4:26PM
    waddya.

    nn dcc

    fight the power ;)

  6. RobertSnozers says:

    BTW I’ve created my own avatar using a Spanish Civil War poster of Guernica, any way I can upload it here?

  7. RobertSnozers says:

    Detail doesn’t really come out at avatar-size, unsurprisingly, so if anyone’s interested, this is what the image is supposed to look like…

    http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h94/XN923/GuernicaAvatarsml.jpg

    • I had thought about getting larger sizes from everybody but I’ve ended up just using the standard 60×60 avatar – it was just quicker to do.

      BTW links in the comments here work auto-magically – just post and go

  8. Guy Denning says:

    Nice idea. I’ll jump aboard…

  9. lightacandle says:

    Digby – one here from ManningTreeImp – he’s a welcome addition to the campaign…..

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/comment-permalink/12892816

  10. lightacarrot says:

    Digby – here’s navellints – you’ll need to ask him though – I said it is worthy of your hall of fame though.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/comment-permalink/12894008

  11. Bob Matthews says:

    Delighted to support your efforts and will join once my technology behaves itself. I suppose as a politicl animal, I’m really a democratic socialist. The extreme right has always been an anathema to me. I’m olde neogh to rememberelctions in the 50’s when my father took me to a public meeting on behalf of the Labour and Coop party at St Georges Hall in Liverpool. how times change! For the better as regards communication and uneartning of dirty tricks, but as regards politics? The jury is still out, for the worse in a lot of ways, we need somehow to get people to engage more, th eyoung are trying to do their bit, and eventually will have a plan of campaign and an idea of policies. Protesting requires a focussed approach, and given time the young people of the UK and Europe wil provide a foundation for bigger and better things.
    You can find my comments on BBC, France 24, Aljazeera, sometimes RT and of course the Guardian, The Telegraph strangely have on occasionpublished my comments, but I think possibly the moderator team had gone for lunch.
    I always post as below.

    Great news finding you, will be joining you very soon. Good hunting

    Dr Bob Matthews

  12. Leto says:

    lightacarrot?

    Good God …it was banana skins back in my day!
    great website .very impressive ..well done everyone .from small acorns etc .

  13. LAC says:

    Leto!

    At least you have no fear of being cut off in your prime here – yes I like my lightacarrot – it seems to follow me around wherever I go now.

  14. Might make a roadsign out of it.

  15. Well, I don’t agree with all this.

    For me the Guardian is an eclectic newspaper in which the viewpoints of left and right can be both be expressed, whether it’s Tony Benn or Norman Tebbit. It is also eccentric, covering issues that no other newspaper does. These qualities are in the best tradition of English thinking which is why, as a nation, we are respected and can punch above our weight in the world. Above all the Guardian is an investigative newspaper with a reputation for impartiality and integrity which gives weight to its reporting. Who else would expose Murdoch, Werritty and the corruption in the police?

    You seem to want to the Guardian to be a left wing paper. I don’t. I think it would diminish the power that the newspaper has.

    For the record, I am not a fascist, I’m a Green and have been for forty years. I believe that the things upon which we all depend like banking, energy, health, and basic housing should be socially owned and ring fenced. Apart from that let the free market reign. Let enterprise flourish as long as no harm is caused to anyone and the activities are environmentally sustainable.

    • I think you’re conflating two issues

      Firstly if Norman Tebbit or Margaret Thatcher wants to write an article for the Guardian that’s great, I may not agree with them but they are entitled to their opinions – and I probably would be very active in the comments section attached to such articles, fantastic – democracy in action.

      The issue Peterloo is querying is the editorial line – let me give you an example –
      if you read the Guardian you may remember a Guardian leader criticising the Tories for having 50% of donations coming from banks – but do you remember the one about the Liberals getting 50% of their donations from a private healthcare company? Or that the same company made an unusually large donation just before the NHS bill was being debated? No I don’t either.

      The Guardian did in fact break the story of the owner of that same company being wanted in connection with an under the table arms deal in India – back in 2009. So that part of the Guardian is doing its job. But where is the joining up of the dots to help people make informed choices on important issues like the NHS break up?

      Background information here along with my efforts to get the Liberal Conference live blog commentators, who included Julian Glover, to acknowledge there could at least be a conflict of interest for the Libs

      http://c1nf.wordpress.com/tag/plumb-pudding/

      And if you feel so inclined you can also follow the recent discussion I had with http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/user/PhilipOltermann about the Lib Live Blog interaction,

      http://c1nf.wordpress.com/2011/10/19/peterloo-avatars-update/

      which ended with him replying:

      PhilipOltermann 14 October 2011 3:05PM

      DigbyChickenCeasar

      Thanks for your response. Your point about talking about mutualisation being one thing, and actually engaging with readers’ comments being another: completely taken. And if you think it can sometimes look hypocritical from a readers’ perspective, again, I think that’s a fair point.

      All I would like you to appreciate is that making the news gathering more open to readers is a process that will take some time. It means changing the habits of a lot of people. I know a lot of journalists who worry that they don’t have time to properly check their facts and follow minor leads because they have to now monitor Twitter, Facebook and comment threads. That’s not to say they won’t get the balance right eventually. But the point is: you can’t just change a switch from one day to the next. And while I do believe that some areas of journalism are very suited to ‘open’ journalism (e.g. comment, Datablog, liveblog of the riots coverage), others are less so (e.g. investigative, ‘behind the scenes’ stuff).

      The rolling comment blog was an experiment: some bits worked (we had a really good discussion in the Labour conference thread about what sort of poll lead Labour would need now in order to win the election), but other bits really didn’t. More than happy to take your criticism on board there.

  16. lightacarrot says:

    Thanks for that English Hermit

    No we’re not trying to make the Guardian a paper of the ‘left’ again – after all what is left wing these days – many now feel that there is no-one representing them or how they feel these days. It is not the aim of the campaign to do this although some individuals might want this that is their choice and they can put their views or concerns forward to the editorial staff the same as everyone else of differing political beliefs. No what we are asking for is that the editorial stance does not impact unfairly on some of its coverage which I for one and I know many others from around the CiF site feel it does. This amongst other things is what we want to discuss whilst trying to contribute positively to CiF too and provide a channel for others who feel they need to speak out to use also. As long term readers we don’t expect to influence the editorial stance or dictate what the Guardian should or shouldn’t do but we it would be nice to be shown some respect in having someone actually listen to what we have to say instead of continuously being ignored or pushed to one side. There are many who feel this way – we have the proof – we just want our voices alongside everyone else’s to be heard.

  17. Thanks for making it clear carrot.

    Are you sure this isn’t just a question of poor moderation?

    I agree with many people that the moderation needs to be improved. I’ve never been in pre mod or banned either although I’ve had posts removed. I wonder how much poor moderation is due to malicious abuse reporting and the mods not checking it out carefully.

    If you get angry and attack the author of other posters themselves then you will be modded. Those are the rules. Don’t get me wrong. You have plenty to be angry about, we all do, and with ample justification too. As Annie Lennox says ‘If you want to get up you’d better cool down’ and it’s good advice. I sympathise and empathise. I know how bloody hard it is.

    All the best.

  18. @EnglishHermit

    see the example above it’s very clear this goes beyond bad moderation. Personally I take the view that it’s not intentional but that it’s come to pass if you follow me – but commentators who make valuable, researched comments have been banned for bringing up the issue of giving the LIbs an easy ride and that is just wrong – it’s censure intentional or not.

  19. Sir Digby

    Just read your post. I just wanted to be sure. I understand where you are coming from now. As most of you are on the left, that is how it appeared to me. My apologies for misunderstanding.

  20. I’m out of the loop on this, obviously. I’ve made posts in the past severely critical of the Lib Dems. (I loathe and despise the scumbags, especially for their local campaigning which has been blatant lies) yet I haven’t been modded. Admittedly this was last year. From what you say, there has been a change.

    I have a suggestion to make. Make a copy of your critical posts. If they get modded, post them here so that everyone can see. I don’t think I’d get into trouble by inviting you to post links on CIfUnderground.

    I’ll keep an eye open in future.

    Thanks.

    • The modding has been a bit inconsistent of late.

      We do keep text back ups and in some key cases, screen shots – the phase we’re currently at is documenting the interaction both in CiF and those responsible for making decisions about the working of CiF.

      Thanks for the invitation to CifUnderground and glad to see you over here.

  21. lightacarrot says:

    Thanks Hermit – we’re hoping to set up a more clearly defined page – ‘The Peterloo Campaign Update and Comment page’ – which actually invites people to place their examples of questionable moderation, concern re. various reporting or lack of it and any other issues they want to question. All of which can be passed on to the editorial staff – maybe in the long run they will provide some such thing themselves – as the You Tell Us thread isn’t really for that and things just seem to disappear in there and a channel for such issues needs to be found – a debate will start it off and that can be mentioned there too along with other things.

  22. leto says:

    I think your being too kind.The Guardian is Right wing biased …it favours Right wing posters.
    Ive seen perfectly sound comments deleted from various posters…but Right wing Trolls stay unscathed.

  23. leto says:

    fgeel free delete this comment
    Actualy In my own personal opinion ..just my own opinion . cif is spammed by a co ordinated campaign by right wing groups ..using a network of mebers under various accounts
    anyhow . Ive given up permanently with the Guardian cif ..totally ..politics has failed the ordinary person in this country .. its just a newspaper it makes money ..and that’s the end of it ..just another marketing product .
    as for any opposition to the Torys ? forget it … the Unions and labour only care about themselves . British society is kaput .
    anyhow respects to lac et al.
    nice campaign but it wont change anything .Uks gone too far down the drain .its abigoted nasty nation and it wont change .
    I wont bother with guardian or anything do with politics again .. the guardian is just another rag in my book … I used buy it and saw it as the only bastion of virtue ..now I actually despise it after the snub .
    cheers

    • we don’t delete comments here :)

      re cif and spammer groups – when you see a troll getting 13 + recommends within minutes of posting you have to wonder, so I know what you mean. But when I mention mods, I’ve been a forum admin before so I’m used to spotting people pretending to be what they’re not – it’s the small things like when you see a poster talking about something they shouldn’t know anything about – ie a conversation the current persona wasn’t party to, then it’s fairly clear. Thing is when they’re getting their troll on, in the heat of the moment it’s more likely that these things will happen.

      But what got me to start this blog and everything else that has come after was the story of the guy that had his house burned down by vigilantes because he’d been wrongfully arrested for being involved in the riots. It just summed up everything that’s wrong about the UK. So I decided to do something – I started this blog and wrote to the lawyer representing him offering help. In the grand scheme of things it probably didn’t amount to much but I certainly felt a hell of a lot better. Things might be crap they won’t get better unless you want to do something.

      There is no fight to lose – if the Graun is simply disorganised or misguided then we can help it to see that and help redress the balance of reporting. If the Graun is rotten to the core we will document that fact and then look for a way to have a genuine beacon in the reactionary sea – because the slow drag to the right started when Murdoch bought his first titles in 1974. And nowadays you don’t need a printing press to make a widely read publication.

  24. leto says:

    Actually its obsession with atheism does it no credit
    as a Male witch and clairvoyant I find it … narrow minded .

  25. leto says:

    Actually its too exclusive too pedantic too serious .aka up its own posterior.
    and that’s why tabloids sell better
    If the Guardian lightened up it would sell more.
    but what the heck …after the snub ..I don’t care if it folds ..

  26. TROOCOST says:

    Kertwang,

    Did you make a copy your comments?

  27. lightacarrot says:

    Leto

    You can’t go – you could help us out by hitting all the threads in you own inimitable style asking people to google Cif Peterloo and join the campaign. That way you’re fighting back, and its better than leaving – we need your comments to keep us going – they always inform and make us smile too – many a late shift on the cartoon thread you may it worthwhile and we glady await your comments – please stay – we need you.

  28. lightacarrot says:

    Hi Wildey

    You do know don’t you that in my opinion you have the best avatar around – with or without the Peterloo sticker – but obviously better with – I have to say that. No but I do like it – when I see it it makes me feel calm and relaxed – which is much needed these days. Mind you it also makes my feel sleepy if I see it late night as the kitten looks so comfortable. Very therapeutic. I wonder if it has a calming control on threads – now that would provide a good service – maybe the moderations would fall as a result and we would all be nice happy little posters – as long certain other ones leave us alone. Can you understand why the likes of Paribu and others on the You Tell Us thread take delight in trying to make us look bad – I just don’t understand it – we’re only try to open up a channel of debate so everyone, whatever their policitical allegiance, can speak direct with the editorial staff and question things they are concerned about – what’s wrong with that? Their attitude puzzles me greatly.

  29. Wildey says:

    Bless you, lightacandle – what a lovely thing to say :-)

    I don’t know why some posters are anti-Peterloo for certain – there could be a number of reasons.

    The first, maybe, is that they are not ‘joiners’, or really understand what the campaign is about. Remember I had my own reservations at the outset. What they may not appreciate is that the campaign has evolved since it began – and they may not properly understand what is actually occurring on the Groan threads these days because they haven’t encountered it themselves. This is an educational process – which began with you on the cartoon thread, and saw a massive growth-spurt yesterday around what went on with Arec.

    The second reason is that some may simply not want to learn, and dislike those who do for showing them up. I have to stand back and look at this from a wider perspective in order to understand what’s happening. You’ll have to excuse me if I sound rather ‘cosmic’ about it.

    Those of us who are older (I’m in my late 50’s and have been politically active/aware since my twenties) have the benefit of being able to see issues with a longer view. We’ve lived through collective changes like the civil rights movement, the fight against Thatcher/Reagan – we know that there are zeitgeists for change that we can ride with. But some don’t – they hate changes like this and become more and more reactionary the more things change.

    What they don’t seem to understand is that change is normal and healthy. And many don’t have a collective view – they hold a very narrow personal perspective, and if they’re alright, they don’t see a problem. It’s not until they have that problem themselves that they learn.

    Opening up a discussion or debate – or seeking to open one – ought not to be a problem, excepting if you don’t want to have one because you might have to come clean about something you’d rather not. And there seems to be a huge amount of energy being exerted in all areas of the human ‘field’ at the moment to try and keep things the way they are – or have been.

    Remember, LaC, not everyone is as honest or open as you. However, so you don’t go away feeling hopeless, consider this…

    Look at the efforts the nay-sayers – in all walks of life, not just the Graun – are going to in order to tell us that there’s nothing to see, we should move along and we all need to calm down, dear. That kind of effort is only exerted when there really is something to see, and people aren’t moving along but stopping to look closely, and are doing something about it. And we are calm – compared to them :-)

    But these are only my own guesses and intuitions at present :)

  30. Wildey says:

    I’ve just posted this on Whaddya – let’s see if this makes any kind of a differnence or not. If it doesn’t, then I’m away from Cif.

    [quote]Sometimes, we simply have to speak what is in our heart in order to make ourselves heard truthfully. It is an excruitiatingly vulnerable place to be, because when we reveal what we love – and of it’s very nature what we love is excruitatingly vulnerable – we leave ourselves open to attack.

    So, to the attackers on this thread, I say this. Bring it on, because there are people who need to see what you do, and how you do it – and there are other people here on this thead who need to see you for what you are.

    I say this as a shaman – so you can attack me for my knowledge that there is a higher power, and the name of that power is Love, as any ‘Turandot’ fan will tell you. I say this as a former prisoner – so you can dismiss me because I’m a criminal. I say this as someone who suffering from crippling depression in the face of your behaviour, so you can call me mentally ill. I say this as someone on benefit. and therefore scrounging scum beneath your feet. And I am still going to tell you what I Love.

    I was talking to @LightaCandle earlier today, and she said this to me,

    You do know don’t you that in my opinion you have the best avatar around – with or without the Peterloo sticker – but obviously better with – I have to say that. No but I do like it – when I see it it makes me feel calm and relaxed – which is much needed these days. Mind you it also makes my feel sleepy if I see it late night as the kitten looks so comfortable. Very therapeutic. I wonder if it has a calming control on threads – now that would provide a good service – maybe the moderations would fall as a result and we would all be nice happy little posters – as long certain other ones leave us alone.

    What a lovely, kind and sad thing to say to me. Who wouldn’t love being told that? We all have those who won’t leave us alone – it’s how I eventually ended up offending. And although LaC and I have had our differrences, all I see is a woman, sad and in pain because something she loves is being harmed and all her attempts to change this are starting to look as though she may end up not being on these threads at all. What a waste of an inteliigent woman!

    What a waste of @ArecBaldrin!

    What a waste of @ArthurTheCat!

    How many more are we going to ‘waste’ in all senses of the word. And, in truth, what a waste of me, because I will follow them if the Guardian doesn’t start listening to the Peterloo Massacre. I’m not talking about the old Massacre – I’m talking about the one that is occurring now, and being permitted to occur, as far as I can see, by how these threads are being managed.

    It can seem to me as if we are being attacked from ATL, as well as from BTL – as if people who love are not welcome on this site anymore. As a shaman, my faith does not permit me to stand by and watch, and say nothing, and do nothing. Yet to even admit to having a faith on the Belief threads is to attract bitter and withering distain. How mad is that? Who is mad here – me, or you? Let’s allow each individual to make up their own mind about how they feel about my faith and respecting mine, because my faith is not up for debate. I can’t say that on the Belief thread for fear of being flamed. As a shaman, It’s hard to ignore that kind of elephant in the room.

    Are you actually aware of the kind of extraordinary people, like @goldenmeme, or @Imageark (I am so tired of people attacking him for his style of thing – what’s wrong with being different) for example? Can’t the Guardian cater for its Asperger’s contributors too – or don’t they count?

    Who else doesn’t count? Who else don’t we care about leaving? Shall I get my coat? Is it true you can’t find an hour or two in your ‘busy’ schedule to talk to us?

    When I was the Staff Side Secretary at Westminster Tory Council, even Shirley Porter herself talked to me when there was a dispute going on. Guardian, are you telling me you’re better than her?

    We’re not kicking off because it’s a power play. You’ve been spending too much time with the dark side. Come and remember those of us who love you at your best, and want more of it. You seem to be listening to those who don’t want you to improve. It makes no sense to me, it makes no sense to @goldenmeme (if I’m hearing him right) and it’s making no sense to the Peterloo Campaign either.

    Is the Guardian like St. Paul’s, and closing it’s doors to the Peterloo Massacre? You should learn a few lessons from your posters on that thread what we thought of that.

    It may not matter to you that we feel this way and are thinking of leaving. But, when you love a community, you give it more choice that you are giving us.

    And to be sure I’m on topic. I’m telling you and this is what I want to talk about.[/quote]

  31. lightacarrot says:

    Thanks for those thoughts and words of advice Wildey – I often go through the process of asking why and keeping on asking why until you reach the bottom of the problem and then you usually find out – why But with the naysayers I just don’t get it and my why’s go around in circles – I can only think its either jealousy or using us as a butt of their jokes or comments simply to try and gain popularity or boost their ego – which is sad when you think about it. Healthy criticism and good advice is much welcomed and I like that and welcome it but not just to make fun or to provide a snide remark – what’s that all about.

  32. Nemossister says:

    Morning Diggers,

    Just saw and recommended your comment on the cartoon thread so popped over to see my little avatar in the customisers hall of fame…..yes Nemossister is a play on the Jules Verne Captain Nemo of the Nautilus character (I live on a boat) and the greek goddess of righteous retribution ‘Nemesis’…. (grandiose, or what?) But oddly, I think the little Pixar animated film character is itself named such for the same reasons so when I got the gift of a PINK girly Nemo from the totally fab, far out, and freaky fulmin8or I just had to wear it.

  33. lightacandle says:

    Wildey – if you are out there come and talk.

  34. Wildey says:

    I’m here, LightaCandle – what do you need to talk about?

  35. lightacandle says:

    Hi WIldey

    I haven’t seen you since the other night and just wanted to say the piece you wrote on the You Tell Us thread was beautiful and one of the most pure, open and honest comments I have ever read on the pages of CiF – and there are some from time to time but non as beautiful as that. And you do possess the ability of insight and understanding and remind me a lot of my mother – one of the wisest people I have ever known. You were right about what you said about the sadness and pain although that is something that has only taken hold within the past year – before that I was the opposite – and always the one who would provide the optimism, the hope and the fun too – but what’s happening in this country has really got to me and moreso some of the things I come across on the pages of CiF both above and below the line. And yes I can’t understand the way some people are and the things they say and do and for why – although if I thought about it and looked back through their lives the answer would lie somewhere there but I find because of the way things are I have no patience and I just can’t stand by and watch them try to ruin something that is only happening to help others who are losing their voice and the voices of those people who speak up for them. And again I failed and let two of the detractors get to me the other night and tried to fight back but to my own cost as one of them revealed my identity and thus I was banned and now have to revert back to my pre mod state so can’t speak out freely anymore after all. So not good.

    Anyway I just wanted to pass that on and let you know what you said was much appreciated – by many others too I’m sure. You must continue on commenting as you have a valuable voice to add and do add something extra – especially to those You Tell Us pages that need it – moreso these days.

    Hope you’re well and although I shan’t be venturing over to the You Tell Us pages again as I just get caught up in the wrong type of conversations – I’ll still be here with the rest of those trying to find that voice for others – so come join us if and when you wish and continue to contribute to the pages of CiF won’t you otherwise your valuable voice will be lost and that’s no good especially so when others similar to yours are being drowned out too.

    That’s it – just wanted to let you know that’s what I was thinking and what I wanted to say to you.

  36. Wildey says:

    Oh, bless you, LaC.

    Whne any of us speak from the heart, those with hearts (connected to their brains!!!) can hear us – and I know I was heard.

    The reason I’m not going to post on Cif again is what occurred afterwards – and there is no blame attached here because I know Digby posted (and was afterwards named a troll).

    The problem presented to us is by those who want to destroy us – apparently supported by the mods, if not the Graun itself. So I’m going to post my reasons for choosing not to post here – and anyone who thinks what I’m saying might be useful is welcome to quote from this in part or in whole.

    I am not hiding behind my avatar. I am not hiding who I am, or my history. My vulnerability is my strength – because it gives me choices. And my post the other night was a confrontation – it meant that other people have to make choices too.

    Am I valuable if I disagree with Peterloo when I believe I need to or when I agree? My answer, here, it both – have you any idea how valuable that is to me, or how valuable that makes you? I don’t think so. With my ‘history’ I am looking for those who think I have something to offer, because I’ve worked extremely hard to make sure I do. And my ‘gift’ to you is to identify those who think that folk like me have nothing to offer.I want to know who they are. Not for me, but for you. If they can trash me – and I really do know my quality because I earned it in prison – then trashing you is no problem to them at all.

    IMHO these people won’t change. If the Guardian is supporting them, then the Grauniad won’t change either – and let’s hope they are monitoring these threads. If they want to hear it as it is, then let them hear it from me!! As an ex-con, I can call a spade a fucking shovel – and unless the Graun learns to listen to those it can’t hear at the moment, it will go the same way as The Times! And I’ll help pull the flush!

    I saw your posts before they were deleted. I understand, completely, your desire to confront those who lie but, in all truth and from my experience, it makes no difference. They have no problem with how they behave – the only problem they have is that we question their behaviour. All they do is provoke you into bad behaviour, and then claim it is your fault!

    Shit, LaC, I spent nearly 5 years in prison as a result of people like that – and I outed/shamed them every step of the way. You don’t need to do that.

    But you could try telling Cif that a rehabilitating violent criminal has realised she can’t remain on the Cif threads because it is too dangerous :-)

  37. lightacandle says:

    “But you could try telling Cif that a rehabilitating violent criminal has realised she can’t remain on the Cif threads because it is too dangerous”

    And that says it all Wildey – and its true – but dangerous in very many different ways too to those who think they are gaining from it with the use of their underhand techniques to distort the truth as they present a face that shows not the twisted reasoning underneath it but one of false friendship constructing trap doors for those who eventually see them for what they really are to fall down. But what they don’t realise is that they will only get worse if they continue down that road and one day will end up all alone being the bitter and twisted individual they have become as the hatred turns inwards and they find that they don’t really like living with that which they have become. You see it in many people sadly – so instead of anger I should pity them – and that is what I shall do from now on – whilst hoping too that they soon see the error of their ways before they can do too much damage to themselves and others to. But yes you’re right it is best to keep away from them too – I have learnt my lesson there – but sometimes I feel I have to speak out – so it is difficult.

    But should you feel the need do return here Wildey even if you never make it back to the other pages – one day we might all be gone too either voluntarily or forced out – but whilst we’re here come and see us and chat or share your thoughts or whatever you feel like doing………the door is always open – well before they close it on us anyway………..be happy – or as my husband would say – as happy as you can be in the given circumstances. True happiness can only be reached when all suffering has ended anyway – so until then we have to make sure we don’t add to it but do as much as we can to alleviate it – and that way some happiness will find its way to you – as true as it can be – in the given circumstances…….

  38. Wildey says:

    Oh, I’m around, LaC – and keeping an eye on what is happening.

    I keep an eye on here, on Cif, on CifUnderground, on Untrusted, but I hang out on BitterBunny’s Omnigate forum mostly because I feel most comfortable there.

    They were the first I ‘came out’ to about my past and their response was so wonderful, it gave me confidence to keep going. I have a lot to be grateful for with them.

    http://omnigate.forumotion.co.uk/

  39. lightacarrot says:

    Hi Wildey

    Keep popping in – and I’m sure we’ll all land at the same time one day. We’re trying to think up new strategies etc for the campaign so feel free to add anything that might be of use or any ideas you may have……

    I pop into Cif Underground too some times – usually late at night at the weekend – although since the campaign started haven’t had much time.

  40. LetoMcDonnell says:

    Good campaign . can .already see a change in the Guardian .alos am beginning notice a braoder change in public opinion ..the Rigt Wing have cried wolf ie health and safety 1000 Romanians ..plasma Tv Human rights … theyve cried wolf that often that reaction and disbelief is setting in
    .Ive noticed a change in the comments on tabloid Forums ..there is an awakening
    and about time !!

  41. LetoMcDonnell says:

    apologies for typos
    also Ive noticed a lot of the regular Right wing Trolls have vanished ..their accounts suspended .even those who have been on cif for years.

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