Making ripples that last.

Making ripples?

I see a lot of stuff getting posted on CiF, which is a bit like throwing stones in a river, it makes ripples that get carried away by the stream.

The other problem I see is the heavy filtering carried out on the Guardian – just trying to get the journalists reporting on the LibDem conference to comment on the C&C Alpha issue has been an eye opener. That is not the digital version of the same paper I used to buy.

I think it’s time that we of the green area organise ourselves and make our presence felt in CiF – by which I mean resources we can link to, and use to make articles for submission to CiF as content.

I know some of you (looking at you Lightacandle) are uncomfortable creating your own content or blog post so perhaps I have a solution –

You’ve got to see this!

It’s a submission area where we can pool links to information, documents, websites or even just network between ourselves

47 Comments on “Making ripples that last.”

  1. AlicanteAnn says:

    Sounds a very good idea. I’ll join in when I can (which, in the next few weeks, is going to be a bit intermittent). AlicanteAnn

  2. havantaclu says:

    Hi Digby

    When (if!) I find anything worthwhile for the Caesar salad brigade, I’ll certainly post it here.

    Meanwhile have you heard anything re our questions? I haven’t been on main CiF for a while – meeting – but there wasn’t any response that I could see up to 10.30.

    Still, what did we expect???

    Jeni (alias Havantaclu) (from David Willetts’ constituency – you know, ‘two-brain[cells]’!

  3. Bob says:

    I like your thinking Digby.

  4. Bob says:

    Hello! An idea has come to me already. This collaboration can work if presented as a co-operative with a snappy, provocative name. The clearer the “agenda” the better it will work. With Anarcho-Communism as a ready made compass this can’t be too hard. You’re right to ‘look at’ Lightacandle as the interlocutor with the Guardian gatekeepers, as, clearly she has got some clout. Who else could get themselves unpremoded?

  5. lightacandle says:


    Wash your mouth at at once. That ‘L’ word shall never attach itself to moi – please no no no no no.

    And as for you Bob – get back in that tree – pronto!.

    Have just read the above – sorry I often do things backwards way round – and it’s a good idea Diggers. Not sure how you would transfer the data from there to CiF or would it be a sort of resource area where people could pick things up to add to their posts. You could do a separate page which focuses on questioning the Guardian’s lurch to the right which would be good too.

    Go for it Romeo.

    • sorry LAC meant liberal as opposed to Liberal

      my objective is to get articles onto CiF redress the balance that way, and yes I would like to do something here on the seeming disenfranchisement of a lot of the commenter on CiF and the Guardian’s editorial policy, maybe a scatter plot of articles and their political orientation – though how to analyse that objectively is the question – maybe filtering for key words and phrases might yield results –

      ie have a bot roam over the Nasty party website for control phrases and then try to match them on the Libs then the Guardian.

  6. Digby

    Here’s one for the salad bowl

    re: C&C Alpha

    and LibDem plans to both form an alliance with the Tories while carving up the NHS between themselves.

    Where it started… I don’t know but can track it back to when Clegg worked as a political consultant for GJW Government Relations .–with-a-small-l-507402.html

    …who are, I think, a health related lobby group

    Although it’s impossible to overlook the role of Hewitt.

  7. BTW the ripples don’t have to just be about health – thinking about the Inland Revenue discussion yesterday was got me to thinking that we needed some way grouping our stuff.

    if you accept the invite I sent you’ll find you can write posts here.

    • the invitation is accepted with thanks

      while I enjoy gathering information ….

      I think it’s time that we of the green area organise ourselves and make our presence felt in CiF – by which I mean resources we can link to, and use to make articles for submission to CiF as content.

      …the above will require foreward planning and flair

      the Tory conference is coming soon. .

  8. Bob says:

    Hey Digby

    Hadn’t seen you pop up on the Cartoon thread, but thought of you instantly when the BBC showed the pic of Obama and Jalil’s handshake. They started with a close-up of the handshake and then zoomed out. You could swear they were taking the piss!
    (how did cmino up there do the link thing?)

    I see Lightacandle didn’t take the bait. I repeat, the idea would be to come up with a sterling name like The Something something Collective, piece together the article on here, then have the oh so powerful Candlecomrade approach Jessica whatshername of Cif. Its do-able. I’d go solo, but I think I’m on some kind of “to be avoided” list on account of my mulitiple bannings.


  9. Bob says:

    (how did cmino up there do the link thing?)


  10. Hi Bob good ideas all

    and linking just happens when you post a link in the comments as you’ve noticed

  11. DigbyCC.

    Hi… enjoying the sculpture. Was the aubergine a Greek/Cameleon?

    Anyway hope you’re still checking back here.

    One more ingredient for the political consensus.

    Blair video, 7mins 12 secs

    In response to a carefully framed question re: public services and welfare, 2nd economic melt-down and the fact that it’s the eurozone’s’ fault (sic).

    ”…public services and welfare; issues, in a sense, that people know in their heart-of-hearts have got to be dealt with; [] the politics are acute, very difficult but all counties — even Britain outside of the EU — face the same challenges.

    ”The fact is our systems on welfare, public services and pensions were created for a world of 40/50 years ago. We’re going to have to up-date them and if you want monetary union to work then obviously you’ve got to align fiscal policy with monetary policy.

    ”So I think to be fair to the European leaders, they’re doing their very best to try and reach agreement on these long-term issues but the reality is the sooner they reach agreement on the basic issues that everybody know exist — and have to be dealt with — the easier it is to then deal with the short-term questions …”

    …..anchor woman attempts to get Blair back on topic to address a potential Greek default. He once again goes for the colloquial: ”If you push the issue back from resolution, these profound issues…down the way… try to push them back.. aren’t going to be in a better position. This is one of those situations were the short-term and long-term are linked. It’s harder to deal with the short-term problems if the markets feel you’re not getting to grips with the problem.”

    All hail the market. Not one word of criticism.

  12. IMF tells eurozone to address debt crisis once and for all amid mounting frustration over threat of double-dip recession

    Europe came under ferocious pressure at this weekend’s IMF meeting in Washington to contain the spiralling crisis, which is blamed for dragging the global economy to the brink of a double-dip recession.

  13. DigbyCC

    The video I posted last night now seems to have disappeared into a black hole at the orifice of Tony Blair. It’s not covered at the Quartet site … but Bloomberg’s still covering it.

    July 14th

  14. DigbyCC

    It’s not difficult to join the dots between the IMF’s statement in Washington this weekend and Blair’s statement on 14th of July re; the implications for the remaining welfare state in the EU?

    That was against a back-drop of another potential US downgrade, this time by Moodys.

    Although Lagarde has stated at the beginning of the month that mass privatisation is necessary, she, unlike Blair waited 6 weeks before taking the opportunity to frame the potential economic meltdown as the EU’s fault.

    Also…while on the subject of joining the dots..Bell on the execution of Troy Davis

    Homeless man beaten when someone tries to nick his beer. Homeless man backs up his antagonist in naming someone else for the shooting of off-duty police officer. Later he recants. Meanwhile another homeless man finds incriminating shell casing at the scene of the crime…. which somehow has evaded previous police searches.

    Did your naughty doppelganger.. that other Sir Digby Chicken-Ceasar, write the case for the prosecution?

  15. This story is developing which is extreemly worrying given that it’s Sunday… the day when news stops. Also… the resently updated article is still not open for comments either. I think we’re heading for a very rude awakening on Monday morning.

    Instead of European governments being forced to pour in cash up front, Geithner and others are calling for the EFSF to be allowed to underpin the operations of the ECB, by guaranteeing to bear part of any losses it is forced to take on sovereign bonds

  16. re; ECB, EFSF and sovereign bonds

    Mid sept Citigroup moved into the greater EU market for both central and local sovereign bonds.

    This followed the UBS move on the 16th of June (the jug ears connection?

    “Managers are expected to sell Greek bonds and re-allocate among other euro-zone sovereign bonds as a result, which should unsurprisingly put upward pressure on Greek yields,” Brian Kim, a currency strategist for the company in Stamford, Connecticut, wrote to clients. Money managers may reinvest funds in German, French or Italian debt, UBS said.

    …early August investors/insurers realised there was still a degree of exposure at UBS:

    …coupled with this on 11th sept the Swiss devalued the franc:

    and the rumour is that at UBS’s London office Adoboli had either been betting against these moves or had been unable to off load the unwanted.

  17. comment development so far….pointers welcome.

    … attempting to get ahead of…or rather keep up with the news curve at the very least.

    In much the same way as a cyclical (boom/bust) accounting + structural deficit was used to frame the debate for austerity cuts (allegedly for the short-term); now a need to capitalise the sovereign debt will be the excuse for a wave of mass privatisation… the final solution. From this point on, there’ll be no turning back.

    But the private insurers and pension funds are themselves in no shape to deal with this … nor are the investment wings of banks, as venture capitalist are geared, by their very nature, to asset stripping and chasing a profit. This hasn’t changed since the days of Lloyd’s coffee house. They in turn are very much the creators of the financial crisis and the model on which the present aggressive behaviour of the markets was built

    It was why, after giving the private sector every opportunity, successive governments found the only viable response to employment, housing, education, health and general infrastructure was the creation of sovereign welfare.

    As an illustration of how quickly this can all go wrong once the safety net is removed there’s the paper Politics of Hard Choices; a study of IMF austerity programmes in the developing world.

    Up until recently the theory was a so called success story, leading to a period of growth, and was the reason for adopting the measures in the developed nations…. but if anyone needed reminding why safety nets were created in the first place…

    The report noted that children and poor households were likely to be most affected by budget cuts. “The limited window of intervention for foetal development and for growth among infants and young children means that deprivation today, if not addressed properly, can have irreversible impacts on their physical and intellectual capacities, which will, in turn, lower their productivity in adulthood; this is a an extraordinary price for a country to pay.”

    That couldn’t be a clearer indication. The IMF offered only the standard knee-jerk response.

    An IMF spokesman said: “The IMF continues to be supportive of the efforts of low-income countries to sustain growth and to continue strengthening spending on health and education. Recent Fund research shows that social spending has increased at a faster pace in countries with IMF-supported programmes compared to those without a programme, particularly in low-income countries. This is true for social spending in relation to GDP and as a share of total government spending, as well as increases in per capita social spending after adjusting for inflation.”

    Already the areas which have seen large scale privatisation (housing. utilities. transport) are penalising (in many cases constructively factoring out) customers on a low income and seem intent on a double dip recession by increasing their share of the average household budget.

    This has been compounded by lack of growth in wages and downgrading of pensions in the private sector. Put these two ingredients together (Friedman could never resolve this problem) and it’s easy to understand why the City is working on an economic model that’s relies on perpetual boom and bust in order to survive.

    How ever hungry it now is.. the City has proven time and again, it cannot be relied upon with the welfare of populations.

    Anyway enough of the Sunday sermon

    Nite DigbyCC

    • would you mind if I made your comments into a post with proper accreditation? That way they can be found through tag indexes and categories – ie makes the stuff come up on search engines, as well as having a one stop link?

      This is what I meant by making ripples that last – while being useful in CiF arguments the ripples travel beyond the confines of CiF onto the internet as well. It is truly broadcasting a narrowcast.

      • Hi DigbyCC

        The post’s not really a stand alone piece….yet.

        I’ve misinterpreted the point of ‘making ripples’ haven’t I.

        The problem still stands that I’ve been posting links for years re: IMF/World Bank research papers. It comes across as conspiracy theory despite the fact that it’s being done in the open…. problem 2. they’re boring which is why people don’t read these in-house papers in the first place. I’ve tried several different approaches and still don’t know how to get over that hurdle.

        But in essence I’m trying to convey information that should be out there rather than express an opinion.

        See last post and todays rolling news.

        Neil Hume explains the Footsie was

        “Down 90 points first thing, on disappointment that the IMF had come up with nothing concrete. Then we all decided they [had] sketched out a plan that might work, but it will take six weeks to knock together…so we can all relax for a bit, and have a punt.”

        Our own Nick Fletcher warns that there is “likely to be a lot more volatility” before any European rescue deal is agreed, with banks and insurers topping the leaderboard at present.

        key quote from Broadbent:

        Even credible monetary policy has its limits. The long rise in commodity prices, the financial crisis and the sluggish rebalancing of supply have all acted to reduce real household incomes. It matters *to some degree whether this occurs via higher inflation or lower nominal wages, because the latter route would probably have involved higher unemployment, if only for a time.

        Credibility means monetary policy can, within limits, choose the former course. But the hit to real incomes would have occurred either way.

        *pure Friedman salesmanship.

        If you feel you can brush up the previous post, add links – whatever needs to be done – feel free. As it’s your blog, you decide, you’re the editor. Personally I think, as it stands, it’s doughy and out of whack with your blog, requiring some oversight and a twist of wit… Digby.

        As for accreditation… like most posting on CiF cmnimo’s posts have been lifted and used elsewhere…. which means… I have no concerns with that but as papers have their editors, those who take a line and follow through, generally pooling resources in order to develop an article/comment piece…. I also have no problem with handing over.. so credit where you think it’s due.

        • I honestly don’t think it’s out of character for the blog – I kind of see it as there to somehow counter the mainstream BSing that goes on, as such your comments fit that perfectly.

          I agree on the dangers of appearing like Alex Jones or David Ike – but there’s nothing wrong with wanting to make people think twice about what they’re being told – especially in these dark times

  18. Fitzarckle says:

    Who is that person in your (old) avatar? Looks like Martin Clunes with a mustache.

    Please don’t moderate me for being off topic.


  19. Digby

    I had a bit of a fight with the comment box… it won.

    link needed for Guardian article

  20. TROOCOST says:

    Digby,LAC,cmnino and any others

    I had planned to make a short film about voting,using the voter as a blindfolded poker player,playing against (without blindfolds),everyone that sends you a bill.The others players are showing each other their cards and showing each your cards.

    I wanted to show the futility of voting for a mainstream party,whilst emcompssing reality for people to empathise with their own plight.I thought it would work better if there was a voiceover and that voiceover was done by children,simply to use emotive suggestion,as we’re up against formidable,very well organised(your recent cif post -perfect day)opponents.

    I had planned to go to an old people’s home and ask if they wanted to be in the film,then i realised that this might possible using animation or something similar.

    Over to you Sir Digby,do you know or can you visualise a way to do the card table,the players,who they represent (gas,electric,water,mob phone,cc,overdraft etc…could be rotund felines),the voter would be playing for their income,so that could change,if more than one voter is used(salary/benefits/pension/grant).

    Youtube could provide an outlet.

    I’m making(trying to)my first film at the moment,i’ve never done anything this complex before,a filmmaker freind said,what i’m trying to acheive is like going from the first step of a ladder to the top,to me,i’m on the ladder for a reason,so sooner at the top the better,more time to make more films.I think what i’m trying to say is,it might be some time before i get round to it myself and i’m all up for anyone propogating this idea,especially as time is in short supply.

    The way i see it is we still have a vote and as long as enough of those votes are taken from the main players there is a chance to change,so people need to know where the ‘x’ goes.

    Having a small child say,’Mummy did you know that when you voted for the ……party that ………………………………………………..would happen’.Might kickstart the old amygdala.

    The blanks would hopefully be filled by a more skilled wordsmith than myself.

    At the moment it’s just an idea but i thought i’d share,as i’m enjoying so many posters comments around the cartoon and there is a very real,pressing reason to awaken.

    • It would depend on what kind of animation you want to do – 2d or 3d

      For 2d animation there are quite a few apps out there among which is Flash.
      Or traditional cell based apps – where you redraw each frame.

      For the Bullingdon thing I did I used the first method – static background, animated objects with a bit of post effects added in in the montage.

      For 3d – that’s a slightly longer undertaking especially if you are new to it.

      Reading what you’ve written I’d be tempted to go with 2d and 3d mixed – backgrounds in 3d actors in 2d.

      • TROOCOST says:

        thanks.i’ll have a look into it.What is south park?in terms of 2d 3d,sorry to sound ignorant,but say in comparison to this ;

        It just occurred to me when i clicked on the animation of perfect day,that it’s a snappy medium if done right.

        I heard Nick Park took 7 yrs to do the first W&G,i’d be happy with anything under that.

        Outside of animation or actors is there another way? Have you seen ‘dead men don’t wear plaid’?